supercharger questions????

[USOPHUNKE]

ok I picked up a vortec v1 s trim and reg brackets and some custom 1 off bracketsbrackets. comes with most everything and a porsche intercooler core.



I dont want to polish the charger but have it done some color that will be clean looking in my bay. satin black prob.

I am assuming I can powdercoat the housing and brackets, any issues with that??? heat maybe??? cracking paint???


I also am going to have to tap my oil pan... I presently run 20-50 racing oil and have not found what oil you should run with a v1.... synthetic ok? Ryan what have you been running?

[VWTUNING]

OH SNAP! Awesome dude!


Sorry I got no answers for ya haha although I think pcoating the brackets will be fine as long as you dont cover any of the assembly area's (otherwise it wont fit right n'amean?).

[Ex-Ricer01]

people coat turbo's all the time, so why not a supercharger. of course you will need it coated in something high temp.

the only problem i see is the chargers ability to dissapate heat, but any paint with a slight texture to it (ie flat/ satin colors) usually increase surface area.

[lotar_6]

I've been using low gloss black and really like it. noah recommended 15w-50, so that's what I'm doing.

[USOPHUNKE]

we have this graphite looking spray coating at work we use on alot of high temp rotating parts and some stuff we just want to protect. I will look up the specs on that tom....

thanks for the oil info.. I couldnt find that anymore as the technical/forced induction page most of the links are broken.

should be fun once done.... I am in no big rush to get it on, as I still have a few other small things to pick up for the coupe.... one I am having a hell of a time finding...

[BUNNYLOVE]

I used to run 20w-50 in the 16V. I use 5w-40 diesel truck synthetic in everything now. I would powder coat it, paint will likely not hold up long term. And als long as its not on the mounting surfaces for the blower it shouldn't hurt anything like Pete said.

[USOPHUNKE]

is the diesel truck oil cheaper???

tried to find if you need to add like 1/2 a quart more oil or anything for the charger but could not find it listed anywhere....

I also am a bit nerved about my redline....I kinda need it to stop at 6500 and right now it goes to 7300ish, anyone know if the c2 30lb chip program still has a set redline....


I am also going to do the ford coil pack swap while I am at it and ditch the vw coil pack. it puts out more spark and is more reliable than msd. msd looks a bit better though.

[meatwad!!]

ford? you mean GM? but i guess you can use whatever?

i wouldnt think you have to add more oil.. unless your going to run and oil cooler(i would and am)

[USOPHUNKE]

no I mean ford..... I wouldnt do the gm coils....

[lotar_6]

not sure how to control the redline w/o having the chip mnfr burn it for you. The oil will need to be slightly more, but don't go crazy. You need to keep the level a lil' lower to allow for the drain in the pan to be higher than the oil level. Before you start the car for the first time, remove one of the top plugs on the charger and put some oil in there. If you are really nervous, crack the case and grease the gears... PITA. And do the Accel coil... which is what I think you are doing.

[USOPHUNKE]

ok..cool. that sounds easy enough... you tapping your block or going into the pan for oil return, vf says tap the block and that seems a bit crazy to me.

[lotar_6]

ok..cool. that sounds easy enough... you tapping your block or going into the pan for oil return, vf says tap the block and that seems a bit crazy to me.

There's a lot of debate around this. It's all about the oil level blocking the drain. Both noah and our McShane have said that the pan is not an issue really. Just get it as high as you can. It's what I'm going to do.

I've been toying with the idea of fabbing a vertical shield in front of the drain. Basically to keep the level near the drain a little more protected during hard acceleration and cornering. Basically a vertical "U" channel piece of sheet metal flush w/ the top of the pan but off the bottom. The idea being that the oil inside the U will still shift, but the majority of the pan oil sloshing around will be held back. I'm not sure if it'll do much as the oil would still spill over the top, but idk... just thinking.

BTW, here's the Accel Coil Pack (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062Z62E/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER) that I think Jay used.

[USOPHUNKE]

hmmm... well That all sounds like alot of work for something that works fine with turbo setups..

well I will get mine all together and see what it looks like drain hose wise.


where do you get your oil feed from?

[lotar_6]

I had noah make me a line. You could get it made custom locally I'm sure.

And the drain from the charger is purely gravity... no pressure. Isn't a turbo's oil forced out?

[BUNNYLOVE]

Nope, same deal with turbos. The drain can be completely submersed all the time. Think of a drinking straw..when you stop sucking and release the liquid falls back down quickly.

You can get premade feed lines in various lengths for cheap from many places including mcmaster-carr, NOS, ebay, etc. The last one I got was $18.

[USOPHUNKE]

I have one of my turbo drain lines left I wonder if it will work.....

[lotar_6]

It's a pretty short line... I bet it would work. LMK if you need fitting sizes for the charger.

[USOPHUNKE]

shipping shows it arriving tom so I will get some pics up.... and kinda fig out what I am missing

[lotar_6]

dude... I'm still finding things I'm missing! lol... once you get to the install, you'll find something else that you forgot about.

[USOPHUNKE]

dude... I'm still finding things I'm missing! lol... once you get to the install, you'll find something else that you forgot about.

O yeah I am sure... all the major componants are there... but if I need a bigger maf housing or anything like that I will have to buy it... and with Bella's 8 weeks of summer camp this could be as slow as Robs car projects:smile:



I still have to decide if I am going to i.c. it as it comes with an i.c. core that needs end tanks.... I also was thinking of using the g60 i.c. setup as that would mount right into the car, but not very efficient and the piping would be too long... i guess time will tell.

i am not planning to run a real small pulley and hoping to not have tons of belt slip issues with the duel idler setup. 6-8psi should be fine for me...

[lotar_6]

IMO if you are only running 6-8 lbs. then don't intercool. Or make it a long term project. Many people are running that boost on stock compression & no intercooling w/ no issues. Maybe consider water/meth for cooling & octane increase.

can't wait to see this...

[USOPHUNKE]

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/124/l_0dbc9ab665bb451a8a92ae56d18050c1.jpg

so I have started checking everything and laying it all out... seeing what I have and what I will need.

so far I know I need.

chip/injectors/diverter valve (1.8t one should work I assume?)... new belt, oil feed and some piping. maybe a catch can too...




the end goal should look something like this..
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/l_6fc781bb2345433395870022206d614c.jpg

[lotar_6]

very cool! Which kit is that? AMS? The braket looks totally different from the C2 kit I have. Do you have an idler? Can't really tell from the pic. Also, I have a DV you can have... not going to use it.

Also, do you have the charge pipe or an intake pipe? If you are chipping, it would prolly be better to put the MAF before the charger (and fairly far inline before the charger), thus the need for an intake pipe. Although, people have put it after the charger and run w/o the charge tube. Then you can just put the filter on the charger and not have to worry about removing or relocating the charcoal canister. I have some info on the belts that I'll post up later. Are you running a/c? No idler? Single or dual idler? All make a difference on belt lengths.

Another thing, do you have the oil injector fitting? If not, plan on getting one (~$50 shipped).

Hopefully I'll have mine done soon so you can compare! :smile:

[USOPHUNKE]

think it is an ams kit... it has a duel ideler setup.. I dont have ac.... but if I get a corrado it may. dont have the oil fitting for the feed line...I have the right an fittings just need the hose and the oil plug...

where do you tap the oil feed from? you have a pic?

I have the tbolt clamps, one coupler and thats about it... I need both pipes still but they shouldnt be a big deal in the garage to fab up... we have tons of 3'' aluminum intercooler tubing.

unfortunately by the time I got it he had parted out some of it. and lost some of the rest.... still for what I payed I cant complain....



oh... any way to check the charger to tell if there are any issues... all the fins and stuff look good... should there be any play between the pulley and fins.? I need to see what the gear box looks like to understand it better...

[USOPHUNKE]

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/cutaway.jpg

Vortech makes some of the best Superchargers on the planet but as with all parts that need a rebuild sooner or later. Here is some info on whats required.


This is what you need:
2 Nachi ball bearings nac-6003 (must be speed rated)
2 SKF Ball Bearings 6205/C31 Chicago rawhide seal
SC/R-62481 Transcom seal
TCM-25x40x7tc1 Chicago Rawhide Speedi sleeve
C/R-99062

That is everything needed for replacing the bearings, seals, etc. Disassembling it is real easy...just take off the 8 bolts holding the front cover on, take off the impellar nut (i think i remember it being left hand thread), take off the compressor case and impellar and mark it so you can have it clocked right for reassembly. As for the rest, it is obvious how it comes off and you will have to have the old bearings pressed off and the new ones pressed back on. The toughest part is getting out the main shaft but with a small piece of threaded rod the size of the pulley bolt and a few quick blows from a hammer and it's out...anyways, it is really simple to do and is EXTREMELY cheap compared to Vortechs price to rebuild so there ya go. That is the very brief version of how to take it apart, there is a little more fine detail to it but you'll see once you start. just be careful with everything. this is replacing all the parts that vortech calls a "minor repair" at $395. all these parts cost WELL UNDER $50 if i remember correctly...maybe closer to $25

[lotar_6]

Here is the OIL INJECTOR (http://www.superchargerrebuild.com/?page_id=8) I was talking about. See if it's on the charger already. It just puts the oil injection right on the gears.

The oil feed is pulled from the top of the oil filter housing. I used THIS VDO ADAPTER (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&N=0&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B1147708&searchTerm=918-240850) from Jegs to fit in between the pressure sender and the housing. I also got a ton of fittings from Jegs. I'll post up a pic soon, but it's really straight forward.

The charge tube should be easy to fab. The intake tube, maybe not so much. It's tight 90˚ downward turn w/ the DV return on the side. Mine also has the crankcase breather return. Neither of which I'm using.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3512010618_aea9af56d6.jpg

and for checking the charger, there should be NO play at all. It should have fairly good resistance to spinning. The seals and bearings are what need maintenance. Not much else as long as the bearings don't completely fail and put the fins in contact w/ the housing. No easy way yo check the seals until it's running and you see them leaking.

[USOPHUNKE]

ok yeah oil injector piece is on there...

I am going to order the bearing and seal kit and rebuild it... for the cost and how easy it is I am not going to take any chances. I watched a couple rebuil video's on you tube and I think mine is fine but, if I can get all the parts for under 100 bucks... I have all the tools.. then I know its good.


as for the tube to the throttle body... the schrick changes the location of the t.b. some so it will have to be custom. so I am going to not have the vent going into it, and will fig out the diverter location... going to go back and look at your pics now....

[USOPHUNKE]

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/power-adder/269319-diy-vortech-rebuild.html

rebuild pics

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/vortech_rebuild_kit.php

rebuild kit...

[USOPHUNKE]

I have a question about the oil drain, is there any reason you cany split it with an fittings and run to two seperate locations on the pan to reduce the odds of the oil getting blocked coming in.

I also saw that most of the issues are with the v9 not the v1..... so maybe I dont even need to worry about this. (Ryan's jetta with the vortech I assume has the pan tapped not the block)

[USOPHUNKE]

oh and I picked up the intake and other pipe today... the one to the blower is off a mustang but the guy I got it from had it on a mk3 vr.... says without a carbon canister it fits pretty easy... we will see... for 14 bucks it was worth a shot...

[lotar_6]

not sure about splitting the drain. I don't think it would hurt anything. I've seen taps on the end of the pan (near where mine is) and on the front of the pan. The AMS instruction pdf shows them cutting a hole in the frame to run the drain straight down to the end of the pan. Not sure about the drainage issues being V9 specific. Just be glad you don't have one... to get decent boost out of them you have to spin it faster than it was made for.

$14 is a HUGE deal!!!!! It should work fine. The charge tube may not work for you with the schrick, but worth a shot!

[USOPHUNKE]

$14 is a HUGE deal!!!!! It should work fine. The charge tube may not work for you with the schrick, but worth a shot!

I think it should work maybe with some slight modifications. it does have the diverter tube on it which will help maybe.... hoping for the best...

[lotar_6]

So I've been digging for info on the bearings to do a rebuild. I contacted 928 Motorsports to ask about the bearings they use. Rightly so, they refused to disclose specific info. I had asked if they were ABEC7 rated and what rpm's they would tollerate. They told me that ABEC7 tollerances were too tight for the application since the heat induced would cause the bearings to expand and everything they have is ABEC5. So... if ABEC7 bearings are used (as some recommend) then they must be ceramic balls to combat the expansion problem... right?

Here is a list of the bearing info I've dug up... LINK (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ak3_LgAP8hX-dEZWeEFxOWdMS25IdE5ucGNzM3NxUGc&hl=en#gid=0)

Now on to the main question I now have... most of the bearings recommended on various posts in various threads indicate 15˚ cut angular bearings. One (Fafnir) indicates a 20˚ cut. Most all of these ABEC7 ceramic bearings I've found for sale are well over $400/ea.!! Superchargerrebuild.com has a kit for ~$450 shipped. The seals and low speed bearings are pretty cheap. I was able to find a set of high speed ceramic bearings that meet all the specs, but have a 25˚ cut. I'm curious if this is going to cause problems in the Vortech application. The thrust from the helical cut V2 is my concern. I can't find any info about the angle of thrust from Vortech documentation, so to me everything is hearsay. That said, would adding 10˚ to the bearing thrust angle cut cause problems if it really is supposed to be 15˚?

I'm keenly interested, b/c I found a source for <$100/bearing ceramic and all but the angle match most of the recommended bearing specs.