1.8T tech questions

[VWTUNING]

which way is this motor supposed to spin? And would it be normal that something hangs up when spinning it clockwise, but spinning counter clock wise is fine? Also, the third pulley/sprocket, which is normally the waterpump I believe, does that need to be 'timed'? I was under the impresssion that only the crank and cam sprocket need to be matched at TDC.



TIA.

[crew219]

which way is this motor supposed to spin? And would it be normal that something hangs up when spinning it clockwise, but spinning counter clock wise is fine? Also, the third pulley/sprocket, which is normally the waterpump I believe, does that need to be 'timed'? I was under the impresssion that only the crank and cam sprocket need to be matched at TDC.



TIA.

Clockwise . . . WP does not need to be "timed"

Not sure why it is hanging . . . do you have the sparkplugs out so there will be no compression in the cylinders when you turn?

Dave

[VWTUNING]

yes all spark plugs are out. And I double checked the crank (TDC) by using a screw driver down cyl number 1 spark plug hole

[lotar_6]

I had this issue w/ the VR when I first tried to rotate it. It turns out I left the crescent on the cam and it would only turn so far! :laugh: Once I too the wrench off, it worked great!

For your problem... dunno. I should spin freely unless the valves hit or there is something in the cam area preventing the rotation. I was able crank my VR both ways, but counter caused the chain to slack and isn't a goo idea.

and yes, it's clockwise rotation at the crank.

[crew219]

I had this issue w/ the VR when I first tried to rotate it. It turns out I left the crescent on the cam and it would only turn so far! :laugh: Once I too the wrench off, it worked great!

For your problem... dunno. I should spin freely unless the valves hit or there is something in the cam area preventing the rotation. I was able crank my VR both ways, but counter caused the chain to slack and isn't a goo idea.

and yes, it's clockwise rotation at the crank.

Yep, I think turning counterclockwise on the 1.8t would also cause the belt to slack a bit given that the tensioner & pulley are located on the backside of the belt between the cam and crank.

Could be that the timing wasn't correctly set initially and by turning counterclockwise, there's enough slack to prevent things from hitting. Pete, when you put on the new TB, did you make sure that the belt was absolutely tight between the cam and crank sprockets? Not sure if there's a cam holder tool on the 1.8t. Also did you use the crank lock pin to ensure that the crank wouldn't rotate from TDC?

Dave

[97GLSsleeper]

No we didn't use a crank lock pin. The tension the on the belt is tight in either direction. When going counterclockwise the cam chain tension moves up and down. When we go clockwise the tensioner does not move until we hit TDC and then the tension tries to push up on the chain. This causes a lot of pressure and we don't want to turn it any furthers in case something is hitting.

[crew219]

No we didn't use a crank lock pin. The tension the on the belt is tight in either direction. When going counterclockwise the cam chain tension moves up and down. When we go clockwise the tensioner does not move until we hit TDC and then the tension tries to push up on the chain. This causes a lot of pressure and we don't want to turn it any furthers in case something is hitting.

I'm assuming you're referring to timing belt tensioner, not cam chain tensioner.

I'm assuming the cam sprocket is what's stuck when you hit TDC?

Did you guys mess with the cam chain tensioner at all? I'm assuming not if you sourced a new/used head . . . I'm asking because I wonder if the cams are set properly relative to each other.

Dave

[97GLSsleeper]

I'm refering to the cam chain tensioner. We didn't mess with it at all because the head was used and yes the cam sprocket it what doesn't want to move because the cam chain tensioner is pushing up against the chain when we are at TDC.

[evolveVW]

WHat year is the car and what year is the head again? I had something similar a long time ago and it turned out the cam timing chain tensioner in the used head was different from the original one and did the same thing. The car was a 98 or 99 and the head was from a newer Passat.

[97GLSsleeper]

I think the car is a 98 or a 99. The head is an AEB big bore.

[crew219]

I'm refering to the cam chain tensioner. We didn't mess with it at all because the head was used and yes the cam sprocket it what doesn't want to move because the cam chain tensioner is pushing up against the chain when we are at TDC.

So that means the intake valves are getting stuck on something? (going off of memory, remembering that the sprocket drives the exhaust cam . . . )

Depending on how many miles are on the head, I would also replace the cam chain tensioner given that the older ones were more prone to failure and the old cam chain tensioner gaskets were also prone to leaking (new ones have blue sealant on them).

Dave

[lotar_6]

I can attest to the tensioner gasket leaking. Pete, I've got the tool to remove the tensioner if you need to borrow it.

I'd agree that it sounds like one of the cams is off. But, maybe Vin is on to something... Vin, did you replace the tensioner w/ the older style and it worked? What did you do?

[crew219]

I can attest to the tensioner gasket leaking. Pete, I've got the tool to remove the tensioner if you need to borrow it.

I'd agree that it sounds like one of the cams is off. But, maybe Vin is on to something... Vin, did you replace the tensioner w/ the older style and it worked? What did you do?

Don't really remember there being two diff style tensioners. The tensioners are quite simple . . . can check ETKA if you need me to.

Only real diff between heads were port size and VVT on later models.

Dave

[VWTUNING]

I remember when I first got the head and inspected it, I tried to rotate it by hand and it bound up. I then turned it back wards a few times and then it spun forward freely. I wonder if I should try this some more, maybe the chain is binding a bit cause its dry?

[allstarrme]

The car is a 2000, it had an ATW head I think, and is getting an AEB head. The tensioner we are talking about is the VVT thing. The engine only sticks on cylinder 4 when spun forward.

[lotar_6]

maybe you have a bent valve?!!

[evolveVW]

I can attest to the tensioner gasket leaking. Pete, I've got the tool to remove the tensioner if you need to borrow it.

I'd agree that it sounds like one of the cams is off. But, maybe Vin is on to something... Vin, did you replace the tensioner w/ the older style and it worked? What did you do?

Now I remember the difference. One had the VVT switch and the older one didn't. It would hit the inside of the valve cover when it was all together. I put a non VVT tensioner in and that problem disappeared.... but another one arose.:mad:

[VWTUNING]

maybe you have a bent valve?!!



checked them all before putting the head on....


New head does not have the VVTI tensioner.

[boostin20v]

Two things, you really should be using a VVT tension on cars equipped with VVT and what cam sprocket are you using, the AEB or the ATW? The cam sprocket should always match the block being used.

[boostin20v]

Don't really remember there being two diff style tensioners. The tensioners are quite simple . . . can check ETKA if you need me to.

Only real diff between heads were port size and VVT on later models.

Dave

There are two tensioner, the non VVT and VVT tensioner. They are the same dimensionally as they sit in/on the head.

[VWTUNING]

Two things, you really should be using a VVT tension on cars equipped with VVT and what cam sprocket are you using, the AEB or the ATW? The cam sprocket should always match the block being used.



the TB cam sprockets look identical, i held up the old one and they are the same size and have the same teeth.


The VVT is also the same among both heads, neither has the electronic connection.


Here is a little update on todays findings...

cams are timed together. check.

you can see the front cam wants to turn (moves like a mm) and the second one doesnt move at all. at the same time the tensioner is pushing up real tight against the chain.

I undid the timing belt and can still spin the crank but cant spin the cams, so the binding is definantly in the head. it happens to be binding right at TDC.

Seems to me like the problem might be with the tensioner but i dont know how to remove it.

[VWTUNING]

SCRATCH THAT. Problem solved. There was a nut floating around in there that was only catching on the one stroke. it was hidden by the cam caps :eek: needless to say im double checking all the rest...


thanks for all the input.

[lotar_6]

For your problem... dunno. I should spin freely unless the valves hit or there is something in the cam area preventing the rotation.

:eek:

I got something right for once! Now I'm 2 for 638!

[boostin20v]

the TB cam sprockets look identical, i held up the old one and they are the same size and have the same teeth.


The VVT is also the same among both heads, neither has the electronic connection.
what is the engine code of the non AEB head? The 058/external water pump block is certainly different than the later 06A/internal water pump blocks. An 058 can use a 16v cam sprocket where as a 06A can't.


Seems to me like the problem might be with the tensioner but i dont know how to remove it.
There is a special length screw which comes with new tensioners to retract it. I don't recall the specs off hand.

[VWTUNING]

Stamp on the original head says ATW.




Kyle - I looked! It was hidden really well... (excuses, excuses...) :rolleyes:

[VWTUNING]

oh and its 95% together, need to find a few replacement parts :)

[boostin20v]

That'd explain it. An ATW is basically a small port AEB. External water pump 058 block.

[VWTUNING]

yeah the ports are tiny on the manifolds compared to the head. waste of an AEB but what can ya do, its all i found.

[boostin20v]

Still will be a benefit...assuming the cars tuned at all.

[VWTUNING]

bone stock auto.

[boostin20v]

not likely going to be much of any difference than. seems a waste to put an AEB head on that....